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Insight: Auto insurers' driver tracking hits wall in California

Reuters -- California is turning into a battleground for technology that allows auto insurers to track their customers' driving behavior and offer them lower premiums, but that privacy advocates reject as an excessive intrusion with serious consequences.

Insurance companies are increasingly installing small boxes in clients' cars that monitor everything from how much customers drive to their average speeds to where they drive.

But privacy advocates say the lower premiums are not worth the tradeoffs, because the data could be used for unexpected purposes like penalizing drivers who visit unsafe neighborhoods. That argument holds sway with the California Department of Insurance, which is opposed to expanding the technology.

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Submitted Aug 18, 2012 By: doeslayersr

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honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,609 Points:1,608,545 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 6:10:49 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse bicycle: I've read it and not just in high school (in fact, it wasn't required back then). And I still use the term b/c it is such an intrusion. Lots of little intrusions that most people never notice (and some folks even embrace). Me, I don't. Maybe I'm old school. Stay out of my business and leave me alone!
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,609 Points:1,608,545 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 6:08:42 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse LEC: let's talk about who was the bad apple and who is the better one? That might be good to share on such public forums and help others.
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,596 Points:1,204,605 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 11:32:51 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse Very good points Bicycle1966! The insurance companies are pushing, pushing hard for the black box because they know these drivers who do get a discount is where their big profits are.... What P###es me off is the moment I turned 65 and retired my rate went up significantly. Same company for years, no accidents, tickets, or claims in over 20 years....just magically I was an old fogy! Well there are companies out there who do value a good driving record over old fogies of 65! My former company ask WHY I was canceling in mid stream so I told them. So bottom line, shop around, there are better deals to be found! Always tell your old company why you cancelled....and why they are A-holes. [Edited by: LetemEatCake at 8/19/2012 11:34:53 PM EST]
jrs4125 Champion Author Indiana Posts:2,753 Points:590,770 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 6:45:01 PM Ignore jrs4125 Report Abuse Insurance companies are always right. They know best.
1WI All-Star Author Appleton Posts:818 Points:274,255 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 4:37:54 PM Ignore 1WI Report Abuse Drive Safer.
PatAZ Champion Author Tucson Posts:9,244 Points:122,280 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 10:39:09 AM Ignore PatAZ Report Abuse California drivers don't want anyone spying on them, can't say i blame them.
bicycle1966 All-Star Author Akron Posts:605 Points:401,840 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 10:19:28 AM Ignore bicycle1966 Report Abuse I'm guessing most of the people commenting "big brother" probably haven't read 1984, or at least not since high school how many years or decades ago. I hate insurance companies. Despite whatever selfless and caring image they might want to portray in their ads, the fact is they are in business for one thing and one thing only -- for a profit. They are in business for their own benefit, not yours or mine. And I am rarely in a position to "defend" the insurance companies. That said, I think people are way off base on this. Most people pay way more for car insurance than they really need/deserve to, because they end up subsidizing the insurance rates of the minority of drivers who cause the most losses for the companies. Insurers already use all kinds of data and statistics to predict losses, and they base their rates on that. Obviously, if you have speeding tickets or accidents, you pay more than someone with a clean record. But also, they consider age and gender, and even education and employment. People with college degrees in "professional" kinds of careers often pay less than part time workers with a HS diploma. Students with good grades pay less than those with poor grades. Your rates are affected by where you live and the crime rates in that area. Your rate can be higher or lower based on the kind of car you drive. They already do all of this. But all of the data is incomplete when it comes to determining who the higher risk drivers are because it is all based on statistical generalities. Kids with good grades might be statistically a better risk, but what about the kid who's a great driver but just honestly struggles in school? A person could be an aggressive-driving moron but have a clean record. The recording device tries to get a picture of what kind of driver YOU are, without the generalities. It records driving time, distance, speed, and hard braking. It has no GPS. It doesn't know where you drive or where you park. It knows your speed, but doesn't know if you're speeding. But if you brake hard frequently, they can infer that you probably drive too fast for the conditions regardless of the speed limit -- or you drive too aggressively, and are therefore a higher risk. You only use the thing for a few months, then return it. And it's optional. The fact that most people who use it qualify for a discount tells you that most people are being overcharged for insurance. And people willing to opt into the program are most likely NOT the ones who cause the most losses for the insurers.
GOBUTLER Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:1,425 Points:389,085 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 9:04:10 AM Ignore GOBUTLER Report Abuse Interesting...
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:32,985 Points:2,344,535 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 3:29:10 AM Ignore tomok Report Abuse Data Collection! Observe, monitor and collect information! To Box or Not To Box? Monitor your driving and 'maybe' get cheaper insurance rates or Not! Data collection on How fast you drive, Where you go, at What time and Why? Credit card use, grocery store and gas station reward/club card purchases and internet use/sites visited are more things they get to watch about you also. Highway, street, business and parking lot cameras are being monitored too. There is too much Big Brother and it's going to get worse and more, more, more! The government and big business will know more about you and your habits than you do yourself. Whatever the size or shape of the vehicle, Produce and ‘Drive’ vehicles with high MPG, are very safe, reliable, have a ‘reasonable’ cost and a good ‘value’ for the money. Consider using other forms of less expensive transportation to lower your cost. The price of fuel at the pump is too high! 12/22/2012!
ExplorerWA Champion Author Washington Posts:4,073 Points:796,175 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 2:05:46 AM Ignore ExplorerWA Report Abuse I with them. I don't want it and it is an invasion of privacy. Who owns the data and who will have access to it.
Blismo Champion Author Arizona Posts:2,134 Points:403,260 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 2:05:44 AM Ignore Blismo Report Abuse ok
Bill68Prius Champion Author Maryland Posts:9,404 Points:1,735,935 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 1:03:26 AM Ignore Bill68Prius Report Abuse What if every car in the Washington DC area had monitoring equipment installed? Would the legislative branch of government be forced to raise the speed limit to 80 mph or would the drivers be issued multiple speeding tickets per day.
MrPony Veteran Author North Carolina Posts:421 Points:392,135 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:53:59 AM Ignore MrPony Report Abuse I think it should be my option.
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,596 Points:1,204,605 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:51:11 AM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse California sound right on track with me....no cute little Black Boxes from Geico for me. FLO can stick it!
boatfloyd Champion Author Jacksonville Posts:1,713 Points:387,000 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:47:54 AM Ignore boatfloyd Report Abuse California is moving on.
jtfftj Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:2,176 Points:1,247,305 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:46:12 AM Ignore jtfftj Report Abuse More old news.
mfeldstein Champion Author Ottawa Posts:8,166 Points:1,929,405 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:45:28 AM Ignore mfeldstein Report Abuse Please leave me some place to hide.
ghmortensen Champion Author Minnesota Posts:1,992 Points:1,668,740 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:45:23 AM Ignore ghmortensen Report Abuse I say NO!
TheeRedRam Champion Author Hartford Posts:3,158 Points:671,660 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:43:47 AM Ignore TheeRedRam Report Abuse .
miser709 Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:1,268 Points:1,069,050 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:41:34 AM Ignore miser709 Report Abuse This has so many negative consequences. Not good.
cloud23465 Champion Author Virginia Beach Posts:8,298 Points:1,616,075 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:41:30 AM Ignore cloud23465 Report Abuse These are probably the same people that are for wire tapping?
ShadowACE Champion Author Boston Posts:9,013 Points:2,148,600 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:40:59 AM Ignore ShadowACE Report Abuse Wow. I didn't expect that from the People's Republic of Kalifornia. I'm substantially impressed. God Bless America!
JPGASMAN Champion Author Ohio Posts:1,519 Points:341,330 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:40:46 AM Ignore JPGASMAN Report Abuse k
autohio Champion Author Ohio Posts:3,770 Points:818,500 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:37:14 AM Ignore autohio Report Abuse Okay
Dailyrun Champion Author Kentucky Posts:1,977 Points:387,865 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:36:53 AM Ignore Dailyrun Report Abuse Good.
batman2010 Champion Author Toronto Posts:1,663 Points:1,013,730 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:36:37 AM Ignore batman2010 Report Abuse hmmm
yvonneIL Champion Author Chicago Posts:3,714 Points:737,150 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:34:16 AM Ignore yvonneIL Report Abuse ok
mrbee Champion Author Little Rock Posts:3,749 Points:2,464,855 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:32:25 AM Ignore mrbee Report Abuse Leave us alone.
liao Champion Author Montreal Posts:3,437 Points:1,426,435 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:31:29 AM Ignore liao Report Abuse Another big brother.
vibdata Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:4,084 Points:848,325 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:31:20 AM Ignore vibdata Report Abuse Big Brother is here. And he took over without even a whimper from anyone. How could people let this happen? I guess 1984 is so far past no one even knows what that means anymore.
txkrb Champion Author Texas Posts:1,558 Points:638,265 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:27:42 AM Ignore txkrb Report Abuse Most insurance companies which offer this have it as optional, if you do not want the possible discounts for being a safe driver do not opt in to the device
crreed1 Champion Author West Virginia Posts:1,980 Points:2,525,360 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:17:55 AM Ignore crreed1 Report Abuse ok
us4usa Champion Author Missouri Posts:5,984 Points:1,111,375 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:17:06 AM Ignore us4usa Report Abuse And next life insurers' will want to track your every move???
dongo50 Champion Author West Virginia Posts:14,684 Points:2,379,070 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:13:37 AM Ignore dongo50 Report Abuse oh my goodness!
millerin Champion Author Orlando Posts:2,305 Points:480,390 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:10:55 AM Ignore millerin Report Abuse hmm...
rawdog1313 Champion Author Lexington Posts:3,294 Points:1,641,830 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:10:09 AM Ignore rawdog1313 Report Abuse I hope it's a Brick Wall.......
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:9,847 Points:1,612,025 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:09:46 AM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse If it is a voluntary system, why not? Careful drivers would probably save a little on insurance while less-careful drivers would opt out to avoid the tracking.
Jarol Champion Author Iowa Posts:8,418 Points:1,592,165 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:08:20 AM Ignore Jarol Report Abuse ... and ... California is bankrupt.
NorthglennBill Champion Author Denver Posts:7,417 Points:1,471,620 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:05:55 AM Ignore NorthglennBill Report Abuse Big brother is always trying to grow.
farn1958 All-Star Author Twin Cities Posts:886 Points:183,385 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:05:54 AM Ignore farn1958 Report Abuse there are some things insurance companies do not need to know about.
Jeffro61 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:2,267 Points:2,284,895 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:05:41 AM Ignore Jeffro61 Report Abuse Big brother BS
SteelPenny Champion Author Dallas Posts:30,948 Points:2,606,515 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:05:05 AM Ignore SteelPenny Report Abuse Big Brother is watching YOU.
jimedB Veteran Author Riverside Posts:395 Points:79,065 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:05:02 AM Ignore jimedB Report Abuse This will probably wind up being used to jack up the premiums for those they consider to be driving unsafely not to lower anyones premiums. And how secure will the information be? You can bet some hacker will be able to get the info and use it to wreak havoc. At least the California Department of Insurance is looking out for us seems like none of the other loons that are supposed to are.
jem069 Champion Author Detroit Posts:2,533 Points:686,105 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:04:52 AM Ignore jem069 Report Abuse Ok
Quick68 Champion Author Columbus Posts:8,218 Points:1,224,825 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:04:36 AM Ignore Quick68 Report Abuse The feds will tax it and make the drivers pay for it.
ratboy1968 Champion Author Montreal Posts:2,612 Points:548,050 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2012 12:01:34 AM Ignore ratboy1968 Report Abuse ok
C.Carpets All-Star Author Oakland Posts:543 Points:2,088,260 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Aug 18, 2012 11:55:42 PM Ignore C.Carpets Report Abuse My question is, will the feds want to put one in too. Or will they just go down to your insurance company to see what you're doing?
trytogetby All-Star Author Cincinnati Posts:864 Points:214,000 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Aug 18, 2012 11:54:56 PM Ignore trytogetby Report Abuse I never did think putting a device in your car for information was a good idea. I felt that after seeing the Progressive commercials.
milespergallon Champion Author Illinois Posts:9,739 Points:1,907,385 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Aug 18, 2012 11:54:29 PM Ignore milespergallon Report Abuse Not on our cars
boatmen Champion Author New York Posts:3,080 Points:622,580 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Aug 18, 2012 11:52:34 PM Ignore boatmen Report Abuse big brother at its finest hour