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EPA proposes grading system for car fuel economy

CNET -- he Environmental Protection Agency and Department of Transportation on Monday proposed a fuel economy label overhaul to reflect how electric and alternative fuel vehicles stack up against gasoline passenger vehicles.

The federal agencies released two new labels that officials expect to be finalized early next year and used in 2012 model year cars. The published labels will be available for public comment for 60 days.

The changed label, mandated by the 2007 energy law, includes the same information on city and highway miles per gallon and estimated driving costs based on 15,000 miles a year now available.

But the new labels add more comparative information, rating cars on mileage, greenhouse gas contribution, and other air pollutants from tailpipe emissions.

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Submitted Aug 31, 2010 By: BurntOrange

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honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:15,279 Points:1,144,250 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Sep 1, 2010 6:25:43 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse as for those whining about extra cost: the EPA already tests for most of those things anyways (if not all - depending on what will end up on the final label version). So, it only costs the extra ink and maybe a bit of computer power. Not much else. So, why whine?
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:15,279 Points:1,144,250 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Sep 1, 2010 6:16:40 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse quattro: they already have that on the web. You will have to look for it, true, but it's out there
bell05 Champion Author Atlanta Posts:6,889 Points:1,411,660 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 3:52:55 PM Ignore bell05 Report Abuse quattro02, I am with you. And SVmike, I share the same scare.
SVmike Champion Author California Posts:1,426 Points:307,850 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 1:47:57 PM Ignore SVmike Report Abuse TWS658: "More government regulations to add to the cost of transportation. " How does this add more than the cost of a sheet of paper to each car's cost? The EPA issues a grade for each car. The dealer puts the sticker on the car. The EPA already tests each car and has all the data they need.
Blue48 Champion Author Illinois Posts:4,975 Points:1,175,145 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 1:21:33 PM Ignore Blue48 Report Abuse TIME WILL TELL..IF THIS WILL DO ANY GOOD!
OnEmptyMO Champion Author St. Louis Posts:3,449 Points:1,046,570 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 1:05:51 PM Ignore OnEmptyMO Report Abuse Will it really make a difference? Come on, we are not stupid, we can read...well maybe most of us can.
FlyNFool Champion Author South Carolina Posts:5,965 Points:1,224,980 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 1:05:42 PM Ignore FlyNFool Report Abuse EPA needs to go find something useful to do.
quattro02 Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:2,243 Points:171,980 Joined:Nov 2003	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 1:05:24 PM Ignore quattro02 Report Abuse This new label will probably not contain any information that is not already available. It will just put it in a common format that is easy to compare. Very few buyers are willing to do the homework to seriously comparison shop. So many just say "I like the blue one." and write a check. This will help those people. Come to think of it. We could use a similar label for our politicians running for office so that people don't just vote for the most handsome or whatever candidate.
jeromehasbargen Champion Author Minnesota Posts:3,204 Points:627,745 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 1:05:20 PM Ignore jeromehasbargen Report Abuse It's good to have this information when shopping for a new car. Hopefully it won't be just another thing to confuse the buyer.
pnd1 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:4,273 Points:859,095 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 1:04:46 PM Ignore pnd1 Report Abuse Doesn't the EPA have something better to do like inspect some oil drilling rigs in the Gulf?
lightbulbman2008 Champion Author Worcester Posts:188,500 Points:1,122,125 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 12:55:49 PM Ignore lightbulbman2008 Report Abuse will it work?
TXGasPriceSpy Champion Author Fort Worth Posts:5,335 Points:1,012,300 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 12:55:27 PM Ignore TXGasPriceSpy Report Abuse How much will this grading system cost the taxpayers???
MAC48 All-Star Author Dallas Posts:728 Points:499,925 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 12:15:58 PM Ignore MAC48 Report Abuse The environmental impact part of this new label is really worthless for an electric vehicle unless there is also an estimate of how much pollution the generation of the electricity used to recharge the EV is also provided. This could be done by state or major metropolitan area so that one could compare the decrease in vehicle emissions with the increase in power plant emissions when deciding whether to get an EV versus a gas or diesel powered vehicle. Without this type of pertinent information, this is just another propaganda effort to further the current agenda of the administration and the greenies and absolutely no help to the average consumer.
indyjim Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:7,411 Points:1,857,645 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 11:47:17 AM Ignore indyjim Report Abuse None of that info compares gas to hydrogen to electric. Cost per mile travelled seems to be the best way to compare. Emissions etc. can be added in a separate location. Another govt. agency wasting their time, our time, and our tax money.
bills55 Champion Author San Diego Posts:2,207 Points:513,955 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 10:48:54 AM Ignore bills55 Report Abuse I wonder if all these anti government people just anti democratic government?
Badmoon Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:5,946 Points:1,186,540 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 10:39:21 AM Ignore Badmoon Report Abuse Energy cost per year just like appliances.
CharlieC08 Champion Author Colorado Posts:6,394 Points:1,154,200 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 10:25:46 AM Ignore CharlieC08 Report Abuse Gvmt. garbage.
bruceha2000 Champion Author Vermont Posts:2,136 Points:983,555 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 10:03:20 AM Ignore bruceha2000 Report Abuse TAT36 (@ 9:47) Yes, the roads need to be fixed and if tax on fuel is the only way to get that money from the people who use the roads, they will have to figure out other ways to get that money. However, GPS? I'm not sure. Is it supposed to keep track of all miles driven in each state? The gas tax in most states is higher than the federal tax. How then are you charged for the miles driven in each state? I guess it could work the same as it does now, whatever state you are in gets to tax you on the total miles driven between fill-ups (as opposed to taxing the amount of fuel used) regardless of where you drove those miles.
FOM_Kompressor All-Star Author St. Louis Posts:603 Points:433,665 Joined:Jul 2010	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:58:16 AM Ignore FOM_Kompressor Report Abuse Pretty soon you won't be able to test drive a car on the lot because one window will be blocked entirely by stickers!!!
karmadrome Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:1,290 Points:417,855 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:52:41 AM Ignore karmadrome Report Abuse Has anyone ever found these stickers to be accurate in real world driving? @ Conde... we've been at that point for a long, long time now.
bruceha2000 Champion Author Vermont Posts:2,136 Points:983,555 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:50:42 AM Ignore bruceha2000 Report Abuse LongPlay: "but some of the other things like CO2 most people could care less!" Perhaps (and you mean "could NOT care less") but maybe if people start seeing those numbers they might make decisions based on them if they are considering 2 cars and there is a significant difference in the air pollution scores. You can't use information you don't have.
MikeMotorhead Veteran Author Detroit Posts:335 Points:240,585 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:48:01 AM Ignore MikeMotorhead Report Abuse Who's got time to read this. Especially with all the paperwork to buy a new vehicle.
TAT36 Champion Author Florida Posts:4,443 Points:847,445 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:47:42 AM Ignore TAT36 Report Abuse Looks like an expansion of the EPA. The article was hard to follow since the Prius was rated electrically between 40 - 56 MPG when it already gets in the high 40s. The VW gets close to 50 MPG on their TDI models. The expansion of the EPA probably will entail how to tax these vehicles since they do not pay the road tax in gas for the miles driven. GPS looks like it is closer for all vehicles to tack mileage driven during the year and put it on your tax bill at the end of the year.
condé Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,752 Points:1,588,745 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:47:23 AM Ignore condé Report Abuse Cost and dumb idea... Are we really that dumb out there! It is coming to the point that anything the government does is 'BAD'!
bruceha2000 Champion Author Vermont Posts:2,136 Points:983,555 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:39:40 AM Ignore bruceha2000 Report Abuse GM will need a LOT of stickers for their Flex Fuel vehicles. - Label 1 (D to A-) for gas - Label 1 (D to A-) for E85 - Label 2 for gas - Label 2 for E85 (non existent) - Label 3 for gas - Label 3 for E85 (non existent) Label 2 for FFV is worthless as it only lists the gasoline MPG. People have NO WAY to see that they are being cheated with E85.
2granny Champion Author Michigan Posts:7,160 Points:1,001,530 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:32:04 AM Ignore 2granny Report Abuse What a waste of money.
techque Champion Author St. Louis Posts:6,383 Points:1,993,310 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:29:56 AM Ignore techque Report Abuse Sadly, the jerks who buy hummers and other monster SUV's and PUs won't care !@!
LongPlay Champion Author Albuquerque Posts:2,896 Points:841,310 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:21:17 AM Ignore LongPlay Report Abuse The EPA should shut down and save us some money. Most people would like some idea about the expected mileage, but some of the other things like CO2 most people could care less!
TWS658 Champion Author Portland Posts:3,066 Points:658,425 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:19:48 AM Ignore TWS658 Report Abuse More government regulations to add to the cost of transportation.
Gas_Buzzer Champion Author South Carolina Posts:11,860 Points:2,167,795 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:19:33 AM Ignore Gas_Buzzer Report Abuse The EPA is another mega-govermental waste of tax dollars. These beaurocrats need to work REAL jobs and get their noses out of our A$$es.
sam7777 Veteran Author Grand Rapids Posts:320 Points:66,460 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:17:59 AM Ignore sam7777 Report Abuse Another worthless standard. What a waste of money for the government and car companies that will be forced to comply.
maske_2222 Champion Author Manitoba Posts:5,709 Points:1,158,615 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:16:44 AM Ignore maske_2222 Report Abuse a guideline...
my2002m Champion Author Tulsa Posts:3,794 Points:1,207,545 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:16:30 AM Ignore my2002m Report Abuse Great, lets confuse people even more buy issuing new guidelines that no one understands. And by the way spending taxpayer money to do it.
Diesel_Ram Champion Author Dallas Posts:4,232 Points:1,057,255 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:16:13 AM Ignore Diesel_Ram Report Abuse What a waste of time and money.
Voltus Champion Author Miami Posts:6,247 Points:1,125,980 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:15:02 AM Ignore Voltus Report Abuse more bureaucracy...
Gassed01 Champion Author Toronto Posts:4,078 Points:1,348,015 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:14:48 AM Ignore Gassed01 Report Abuse Government intervention trying to help us. OK - do it. Make the label so complicated and long that no one will read it.
hwmillerster Champion Author Missouri Posts:4,444 Points:1,007,370 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:13:23 AM Ignore hwmillerster Report Abuse Only a small fraction of the automobile buying public will use this information.
marbljk Sophomore Author Alabama Posts:184 Points:2,008,735 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:12:29 AM Ignore marbljk Report Abuse What they really need is a cost per mile to operate a vehicle each year based on a standard price for gasoline and cost per KWH adjusted each year based on average across the US.
2gjh Champion Author North Dakota Posts:2,329 Points:2,190,200 Joined:Nov 2003	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:11:38 AM Ignore 2gjh Report Abuse Your tax dollars hardly at work. How many millions did the new labeling system cost the government/industry?
goodbuy Champion Author Michigan Posts:5,519 Points:994,735 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:11:27 AM Ignore goodbuy Report Abuse WHY!! So they can screw something else up.
bruceha2000 Champion Author Vermont Posts:2,136 Points:983,555 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:11:11 AM Ignore bruceha2000 Report Abuse I'm not so sure how this will work out. Too much information and not enough information at the same time. - Electric only: first 11 miles - 50 miles before switching to gas mode - There is no info on the charge time. Is that 110V 15A, 220V 30A, 220V 60A, public charging station?1) Where are the city and highway numbers under electric only and under gas only? I don't care what the combined number is if I drive a LOT of highway or a LOT of city. 2) They don't even HAVE an electric ONLY number for this 'PHEV-Predominately blended' type car. Nor do they have a KWH/100 miles number so you can figure out how much electricity is used to go the 11 'all electric' miles? In fact, this sticker would have NO meaning on a LEAF or Telsa. 3) Why is the "this vehicle gets 53 MPGe" info in small print at the bottom? That is the number you would be using to compare to an all gas or diesel vehicle. At least they DO have the MPGe number (33.7 KWH = 1 gallon gas). Definitely have to Look at all the stickers to make sense of it. At least the D to A+ stickers give the city and highway MPGe [Edited by: bruceha2000 at 8/31/2010 9:13:38 AM EST]
Helms Champion Author Fort Worth Posts:4,729 Points:1,496,005 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:10:39 AM Ignore Helms Report Abuse If the EPA were to be graded it would be an F -!!!
oilrobber Champion Author Miami Posts:7,297 Points:1,469,335 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:09:54 AM Ignore oilrobber Report Abuse Sorry, I have no trust or respect for the Federal Government or the EPA. I am sick of the lies and propaganda put out by both!
Goatroper Champion Author Dallas Posts:4,689 Points:914,495 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:08:11 AM Ignore Goatroper Report Abuse Yeah, whatever.
I10Express Champion Author San Antonio Posts:6,321 Points:1,176,970 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:03:35 AM Ignore I10Express Report Abuse The federal government trying to tell you how to think with partial information.
Jusy Sophomore Author Nashville Posts:104 Points:344,180 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:02:31 AM Ignore Jusy Report Abuse I like the idea of a standard fuel economy sticker with this type of information. It should not be the only criteria for buying a car, but it will be one of my considerations. If the tags are not standardized, its difficult to compare.
Buck_on_Bass Champion Author Tennessee Posts:5,190 Points:1,042,340 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:02:27 AM Ignore Buck_on_Bass Report Abuse The simplistic letter grade label is a "one-size-fits-all" solutions that will discredit the markings when the public's experience does not match the simplistic marking. To make an informed decision, the public will need information and will need to take the time to learn to use that information. The smartphone scan code is a good idea if it has good information to back is up. A spreadsheet where one could enter their driving information and then compare different vehicles would be better than a simplistic grade that may not reflect one's driving needs.
bowser12304 Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:1,515 Points:671,955 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:01:56 AM Ignore bowser12304 Report Abuse this gives us an idea of the mileage, but we all drive differently
toyrunner300 Champion Author Calgary Posts:3,219 Points:1,214,960 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:01:53 AM Ignore toyrunner300 Report Abuse I did read their pdf files and it doesn't make too much sense. They put a letter on it for a MPG range, so why not put the MPG instead of a range?
nozzle46 Champion Author Little Rock Posts:4,876 Points:1,098,530 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Aug 31, 2010 9:01:44 AM Ignore nozzle46 Report Abuse Looks like a lot of thought has gone into this. The more information the better.