honda0105

Champion Author
Tallahassee
Posts:18,632 Points:1,610,495 Joined:Nov 2008
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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2012 7:32:01 AM
interesting comments.
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A2J

Champion Author
Richmond
Posts:3,080 Points:603,925 Joined:Aug 2011
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 1:36:41 PM
below the belt ?
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Martinman

Champion Author
Mississippi
Posts:14,739 Points:2,093,830 Joined:Sep 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 12:45:50 AM
nsdp from San Antonio posted...
"Interesting that this court said to do what a different panel from the DC circuit said NOT to do in North Carolina vs EPA. NC vs EPA was the prior appeal of this set of rules. Since a second panel of a Circuit Court Of Appeals cannot over rule or veto a prior panel "Stare Decisis" when the case has previously been denied review by the Supreme Court, today's decision means only that the matter will be referred to an "En Banc" hearing by the DC Circuit. The order denying Cert in NC Vs EPA gives the first opinion and advantage since the Supreme Court saw nothing wrong with the first decision. It was also a unanimous decision while this one is a split decision. So we basically have 4 judges voting against today's decision and only two voting for it. Of the five remaining Circuit judges, four are either Clinton or Obama appointments. I really doubt that today's decision will survive given the odds against it. Unlike the NC panel which issued a mandate (court order) which EPA must obey, today's court cannot issue a mandate due to the split decision and the prior ruling contrary.
Our level of literacy continues to decline."
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The true irony in this, is that it was the State of Massachusetts that was the intervenor...
To piggy-back on what nsdp posted.
First, this will be over-turned.
Additional reasons "Why"?
Because it was the prior Supreme Court ruling in 2007 that REQUIRED the EPA to enforce "pollutants" the Clean Air Act.
In its prior ruling, the Supreme Court directed the EPA to enforce pollution standards under the Clean Air Act by identifying whether carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are pollutants, as well as to set standards according to the Act. The NAS and NIH have both identified sulfur dioxide and Nitrous oxide as pollutants - sulfur dioxide contributing to acid rain and Nitrous oxide to ozone/smog pollution.
Second, this Appeallate ruling does not affect the "MATS for power plants" emissions standards, that also covers arsenic, mercury, and Carbon Dioxide emissions. This is largely a matter of semantics by the coal and power utilities industries.
Realize that the EPA only wrote the emissions standards. Determinations of pollutants and toxicity information came from research by the NAS (National Academy of Sciences) and NIH (National Institutes of Health). The EPA used peer review literature in determining which emissions particulates were hazardous to human health, and thus defined as "pollutants", as well as at what levels the pollutants constitute a public health hazard. It then set emissions standards in accordance with those findings.
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MASSACHUSETTS et al. v. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY et al.
"Based on respected scientific opinion that a well-documented rise in global temperatures and attendant climatological and environmental changes have resulted from a significant increase in the atmospheric concentration of “greenhouse gases,” a group of private organizations petitioned the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to begin regulating the emissions of four such gases, including carbon dioxide, under §202(a)(1) of the Clean Air Act, which requires that the EPA “shall by regulation prescribe ... standards applicable to the emission of any air pollutant from any class... of new motor vehicles... which in [the EPA Administrator’s] judgment cause[s], or contribute[s] to, air pollution ... reasonably ... anticipated to endanger public health or welfare,” 42 U. S. C. §7521(a)(1). The Act defines “air pollutant” to include “any air pollution agent ... , including any physical, chemical ... substance ... emitted into ... the ambient air.” §7602(g). EPA ultimately denied the petition, reasoning that (1) the Act does not authorize it to issue mandatory regulations to address global climate change, and (2) even if it had the authority to set greenhouse gas emission standards, it would have been unwise to do so at that time because a causal link between greenhouse gases and the increase in global surface air temperatures was not unequivocally established. The agency further characterized any EPA regulation of motor-vehicle emissions as a piecemeal approach to climate change that would conflict with the President’s comprehensive approach involving additional support for technological innovation, the creation of nonregulatory programs to encourage voluntary private-sector reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, and further research on climate change, and might hamper the President’s ability to persuade key developing nations to reduce emissions.
Petitioners, now joined by intervenor Massachusetts and other state and local governments, sought review in the D. C. Circuit. Although each of the three judges on the panel wrote separately, two of them agreed that the EPA Administrator properly exercised his discretion in denying the rulemaking petition. One judge concluded that the Administrator’s exercise of “judgment” as to whether a pollutant could “reasonably be anticipated to endanger public health or welfare,” §7521(a)(1), could be based on scientific uncertainty as well as other factors, including the concern that unilateral U. S. regulation of motor-vehicle emissions could weaken efforts to reduce other countries’ greenhouse gas emissions. The second judge opined that petitioners had failed to demonstrate the particularized injury to them that is necessary to establish standing under Article III, but accepted the contrary view as the law of the case and joined the judgment on the merits as the closest to that which he preferred. The court therefore denied review...."
.
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drpepperTX

Champion Author
Texas
Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 12:36:01 AM
President Richard Nixon transmitted Reorganization Plan No. 3 to the United States Congress by executive order and creating the EPA. The order of the wording is the key.
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Martinman

Champion Author
Mississippi
Posts:14,739 Points:2,093,830 Joined:Sep 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 12:04:19 AM
If you've not dealt with drpeppertx before, he is an ardent supporter of revisionist history...
Practices it every day!
[Edited by: Martinman at 8/24/2012 12:06:37 AM EST]
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gravityhurts

Champion Author
North Carolina
Posts:4,098 Points:938,480 Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 6:13:48 PM
already commented about this, I unlike our repeating Gas Buddy, will not repeat myself.
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rjhenn

Champion Author
Des Moines
Posts:22,444 Points:2,229,925 Joined:Aug 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 3:04:27 PM
drpepperTX - "EPA was created by Executive Order in 1970. Executive order power is only granted to the Executive Branch of government."
The executive order was a reorganization plan that was submitted to Congress in accordance with chapter 9 of Title 5 USC and ratified by committee hearings in the House and Senate.
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sparky808

Champion Author
Honolulu
Posts:3,003 Points:598,710 Joined:Sep 2011
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 1:20:56 PM
Thank you for posting.
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drpepperTX

Champion Author
Texas
Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 9:06:14 AM
EPA was created by Executive Order in 1970. Executive order power is only granted to the Executive Branch of government.
[Edited by: drpepperTX at 8/23/2012 9:10:25 AM EST]
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GOBUTLER

Champion Author
Indianapolis
Posts:1,425 Points:389,835 Joined:Dec 2011
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 8:56:45 AM
Interesting...
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DrCashFlow

Champion Author
Massachusetts
Posts:7,074 Points:1,628,200 Joined:Jun 2008
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 2:54:32 AM
good
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rjhenn

Champion Author
Des Moines
Posts:22,444 Points:2,229,925 Joined:Aug 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 1:48:26 AM
SammyAdams - "The EPA is a lawless agency out of control and with hardly any accountability. It was created by Executive Order (Similar to a mandate by a dictator) and should be abolished altogether."
Actually, it was created with the consent and authorization of Congress and it enforces laws passed by Congress.
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OWENALOTT

Champion Author
Appleton
Posts:2,182 Points:500,095 Joined:Apr 2011
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 1:31:24 AM
Great ruling!
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SammyAdams

Champion Author
Tallahassee
Posts:3,056 Points:793,535 Joined:Nov 2010
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 12:16:53 AM
The EPA is a lawless agency out of control and with hardly any accountability. It was created by Executive Order (Similar to a mandate by a dictator) and should be abolished altogether. We do not need an opinion from the Courts at any level. Congress just needs to A-B-O-L-I-S-H this unconstitutional agency.
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Zonk

Champion Author
Michigan
Posts:6,486 Points:2,102,990 Joined:Oct 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 12:11:41 AM
Great ruling!
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rahcat

Champion Author
Grand Rapids
Posts:2,473 Points:663,175 Joined:Jan 2010
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 12:04:38 AM
OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!!! Now, defund and ban the EPA!
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pastorpaulcg

Champion Author
Virginia
Posts:3,615 Points:775,785 Joined:Dec 2010
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 12:04:05 AM
Epa overreached? Shocking
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MAC48

Champion Author
Dallas
Posts:1,547 Points:766,840 Joined:Dec 2006
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 12:03:27 AM
It would be quite appropriate and indeed a wonderful event for the this country and its economy if all EPA rulings since 1990 were repealed.
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jrschl

Champion Author
Louisville
Posts:2,972 Points:681,740 Joined:Jun 2011
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 12:02:35 AM
When is the EPA itself going to be struck down?
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EmperorsFinest

Champion Author
Chicago
Posts:1,564 Points:340,870 Joined:Jul 2011
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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 12:02:06 AM
tubular
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VanIsleLes

All-Star Author
British Columbia
Posts:898 Points:276,995 Joined:Jun 2012
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:55:32 PM
Never a dull moment.
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SavALot

Champion Author
Virginia Beach
Posts:8,474 Points:1,712,585 Joined:Apr 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:54:04 PM
Keep the skies blue not brown
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nvlkoala

Sophomore Author
Maryland
Posts:198 Points:249,750 Joined:Jul 2011
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:53:51 PM
cheeper coal to export to india
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bby

Champion Author
Twin Cities
Posts:5,729 Points:1,022,895 Joined:Nov 2009
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:53:26 PM
Ok
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letterchunker

Champion Author
Texas
Posts:2,245 Points:667,675 Joined:Aug 2008
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:52:42 PM
Two things we really need to get rid of soon (November). Obama-EPA
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Chris46

Champion Author
Dayton
Posts:23,672 Points:2,082,315 Joined:Sep 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:52:39 PM
About time somebody did something.
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Alaydown

Champion Author
Los Angeles
Posts:5,121 Points:823,620 Joined:May 2007
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:52:01 PM
Hopefully we can change presidents in January too.
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REVLAW

Champion Author
San Antonio
Posts:10,435 Points:2,007,245 Joined:Jul 2007
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:51:50 PM
Well, at least one judge had the balls to tell Obama to pound sand. Chief Justice Roberts should take lessons.
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tidalwave3

Champion Author
Tallahassee
Posts:1,304 Points:1,463,725 Joined:Jun 2008
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:45:20 PM
And people still want him for 4 more years, really?
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alchulito

All-Star Author
New York
Posts:863 Points:504,705 Joined:Dec 2010
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:44:32 PM
Alright
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mstearno

Champion Author
Dayton
Posts:8,071 Points:1,732,210 Joined:Jan 2008
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:43:15 PM
bout time
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g747

Champion Author
Mobile
Posts:4,541 Points:933,670 Joined:Jul 2009
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:43:12 PM
About time the brakes be put on the E.P.A.
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NedW

Champion Author
Indianapolis
Posts:5,620 Points:1,143,220 Joined:Mar 2008
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:41:26 PM
There's a sane court in the land!
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WIPACKERFAN

Champion Author
Chicago
Posts:8,809 Points:1,844,425 Joined:Aug 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:40:09 PM
EPA is too big for its britches.
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big_mac64

Champion Author
Tennessee
Posts:10,593 Points:1,485,690 Joined:May 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:39:16 PM
EPA is one gov't entity that I wouldn't miss...plus ousting them will save taxpayers lots of $$$$$
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nru

Champion Author
Twin Cities
Posts:1,748 Points:983,225 Joined:Feb 2006
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:38:43 PM
why is it referred to as the Obama EPA - started by Nixon
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phinsup67

Champion Author
North Carolina
Posts:5,365 Points:1,179,880 Joined:Oct 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:37:38 PM
Blah Blah Blah
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suzmar

Champion Author
Texas
Posts:2,212 Points:872,740 Joined:Jun 2006
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:36:04 PM
The EPA has exceeded its mandate in many areas.
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PetroScopper

Champion Author
Houston
Posts:6,625 Points:1,550,910 Joined:Aug 2008
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:28:07 PM
I guess its back to the drawing board... there will still have to be some changes, its inevitable!
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firefly09

Champion Author
San Diego
Posts:2,497 Points:716,700 Joined:Mar 2009
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:26:17 PM
As nspd said, "Our level of literacy continues to decline."
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nsdp

Champion Author
San Antonio
Posts:1,117 Points:47,315 Joined:Jun 2012
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:26:10 PM
wayoung56, interesting for the number of mistakes in it.
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mcmonsta

Champion Author
Honolulu
Posts:3,232 Points:818,770 Joined:Sep 2009
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:24:27 PM
EPA without controls...what a monster
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wayoung56

Champion Author
Alabama
Posts:2,805 Points:819,310 Joined:Oct 2006
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:22:18 PM
Interesting article...
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nsdp

Champion Author
San Antonio
Posts:1,117 Points:47,315 Joined:Jun 2012
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:18:37 PM
Interesting that this court said to do what a different panel from the DC circuit said NOT to do in North Carolina vs EPA. NC vs EPA was the prior appeal of this set of rules. Since a second panel of a Circuit Court Of Appeals cannot over rule or veto a prior panel "Stare Decisis" when the case has previously been denied review by the Supreme Court, today's decision means only that the matter will be referred to an "En Banc" hearing by the DC Circuit. The order denying Cert in NC Vs EPA gives the first opinion and advantage since the Supreme Court saw nothing wrong with the first decision. It was also a unanimous decision while this one is a split decision. So we basically have 4 judges voting against today's decision and only two voting for it. Of the five remaining Circuit judges, four are either Clinton or Obama appointments. I really doubt that today's decision will survive given the odds against it. Unlike the NC panel which issued a mandate (court order) which EPA must obey, today's court cannot issue a mandate due to the split decision and the prior ruling contrary.
Our level of literacy continues to decline.
[Edited by: nsdp at 8/22/2012 11:24:01 PM EST]
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evey315

Sophomore Author
Ohio
Posts:219 Points:209,910 Joined:Feb 2012
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:10:02 PM
rein in the EPA before they get totally out of control
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MJIOWA

Champion Author
Iowa
Posts:4,823 Points:1,077,945 Joined:Nov 2009
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:09:45 PM
ok
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itsjustme719

All-Star Author
Hamilton
Posts:611 Points:598,725 Joined:Dec 2010
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:09:29 PM
Coal shouldn't be used anywhere anymore.
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MG_Sputnik

Champion Author
Philadelphia
Posts:7,310 Points:1,961,380 Joined:Apr 2006
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:09:10 PM
Cool beans.
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Blue48

Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:7,310 Points:1,638,920 Joined:Feb 2007
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:09:06 PM
BANG!
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ratones1

Champion Author
Los Angeles
Posts:2,912 Points:732,730 Joined:Mar 2011
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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:09:01 PM
OKAY...
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