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B.C. Transit criticized for Olympic hydrogen buses

Canada.com -- As the world's largest fleet of hydrogen-powered buses is set to roll in Whistler, a leading environmental group is questioning the economic sense of the project.

"It is fine to scope out potential technologies of the future, but the reality is B.C.'s public transit services are on life support as far as the financial needs go," said Ian Bruce, climate-change campaigner for the David Suzuki Foundation.

The 20 hydrogen-bus project is funded with $45 million from the federal government and $44.5 million from the province and BC Transit, . The money covers both capital and operating costs until 2014.

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Submitted Nov 23, 2009 By: GM

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neemund Veteran Author Seattle Posts:273 Points:375,980 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2009 6:12:33 PM Ignore neemund Report Abuse An environmental group questioning the economic impact of a supposedly "green" project!?! Very impressive. And why do they have to truck in the hydrogen from Quebec? I'm sure there are plenty of closer sources than that. Anyplace that has water and electricity can make hydrogen in any quantity.
SaltyDogMA All-Star Author Massachusetts Posts:975 Points:337,030 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:24:52 AM Ignore SaltyDogMA Report Abuse Another example that government needs to stay out of private business. Taking taxpayer money and building busses 4x more expensive than diesel busses makes no sense.
t_flor All-Star Author Illinois Posts:705 Points:290,505 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:24:31 AM Ignore t_flor Report Abuse It's been a very long time since I've read about an environmental group questioning the economic sense of doing something green! I am impressed!
I10Express Champion Author San Antonio Posts:2,638 Points:454,595 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:23:59 AM Ignore I10Express Report Abuse I feel sure the Canadian governments have wasted more than that on other experiments.
BeaverBilly Champion Author Alberta Posts:3,922 Points:1,368,005 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:23:24 AM Ignore BeaverBilly Report Abuse Its a "SHOW" by the government, nothing else. They have to impress the thousands of people who are coming to visit and get ripped off by hotels, and souvenir sellers.
ByGuy Champion Author Dallas Posts:2,249 Points:589,370 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:21:42 AM Ignore ByGuy Report Abuse More political decisions that do not make economic sense. Does make feel good green sense.
nstrdnvstr Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:27,960 Points:2,810,985 Joined:May 2001	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:21:20 AM Ignore nstrdnvstr Report Abuse FocusGuy, it is really not that surprising, "those" environmental groups usually want to use other peoples money for their causes. When it affects their pocketbook, that is a different story.
THEDodgeman Champion Author Denver Posts:2,024 Points:766,235 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:20:34 AM Ignore THEDodgeman Report Abuse GO HYDROGEN... NO POLLUTION EMISSIONS IS GOOD NO MATTER WHAT. MASS PRODUCTION WILL MAKE THE PRICE GO DOWN. HYDROGEN SHOULD BE THE FUTURE. OTHERWISE WE WILL ALWAYS BE OIL DEPENDENT ON OIL FROM THE MID EAST.
silverfox63 Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,307 Points:463,090 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:20:08 AM Ignore silverfox63 Report Abuse Does not make much sense to spend all that money if your bus system is on life support as this article says. [Edited by: silverfox63 at 11/24/2009 8:20:23 AM EST]
Digger5 Sophomore Author Milwaukee Posts:166 Points:843,185 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:15:07 AM Ignore Digger5 Report Abuse Great political logic! Not the brightest stars in the sky!
72_Monte Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:1,720 Points:818,280 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:14:40 AM Ignore 72_Monte Report Abuse A $90,000,000 experiment. I think it would've been better spent on natural gas.
lkozark Champion Author Missouri Posts:1,807 Points:417,710 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:14:38 AM Ignore lkozark Report Abuse It will be interesting to view their results after one year of service.
mk9999 Champion Author Rochester Posts:1,962 Points:494,540 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:12:20 AM Ignore mk9999 Report Abuse More stupid govt waste of money programs. What they really need to do is lower taxes and spend less.
FocusGuy Champion Author Seattle Posts:1,035 Points:247,795 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:11:48 AM Ignore FocusGuy Report Abuse That's an interesting twist for an environmental group.
PENNYPINCHR Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:1,964 Points:1,548,065 Joined:Jul 2001	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:09:50 AM Ignore PENNYPINCHR Report Abuse More government funded programs. Are these buses really saving that much doe ray me.....................
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:15,650 Points:1,160,360 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:04:00 AM Ignore tomok Report Abuse VERY ESPENSIVE bus service! Hydrogen is very expensive to make and to buy. Any business should be operated to make a profit – whether it’s the government or not. What happens after 2014 when the deep pockets of the government is not involved?
adr47 Champion Author Saskatchewan Posts:1,372 Points:336,395 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:26:14 AM Ignore adr47 Report Abuse A practical test for alternative fuel
Don1222 Champion Author Michigan Posts:5,049 Points:556,155 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:22:58 AM Ignore Don1222 Report Abuse Support alternative fuels, and hydrogen fuel cells.
hybridaholic Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:2,300 Points:388,210 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:22:44 AM Ignore hybridaholic Report Abuse HYDROGEN??? They can use airships filled with hydrogen to move the crowds.
kidwhamo Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,213 Points:887,550 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:20:10 AM Ignore kidwhamo Report Abuse i would like to see how well this works out.
ironbox_sara Champion Author Albany Posts:3,669 Points:1,091,665 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:17:42 AM Ignore ironbox_sara Report Abuse Another public transit service on life support.
madison8359 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:1,530 Points:420,865 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:13:07 AM Ignore madison8359 Report Abuse Fuel is a major expense for public transportation. I wonder what oil costs today and what it will cost in the future? Oil will surely go up and up, hydrogen is one of the options for the future.
PurduePete86 All-Star Author Indiana Posts:628 Points:526,730 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:12:54 AM Ignore PurduePete86 Report Abuse Yep being Green costs money. That is why Green technology is so attractive to start up businesses. Article also prooves that Greenies are just a bunch of Naysayers, there will be no satisfaction for them. [Edited by: PurduePete86 at 11/24/2009 7:15:16 AM EST]
1RedJellyBean Veteran Author Greensboro Posts:447 Points:201,725 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:09:55 AM Ignore 1RedJellyBean Report Abuse Meanwhile, Gas Prices.......The local store has held their prices the same for almost 3 weeks- Have a BLESSED Day!! 2 Cor 2:14
bumpygas Champion Author Nebraska Posts:2,538 Points:757,350 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:04:56 AM Ignore bumpygas Report Abuse Petrock said it all.
goldilox88 Champion Author Montreal Posts:1,217 Points:419,105 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:04:14 AM Ignore goldilox88 Report Abuse Applaud B.C. for using hydrogen buses.
findcheap Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:3,630 Points:828,925 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 6:05:03 AM Ignore findcheap Report Abuse someone always complaining
Petrock Champion Author Lexington Posts:3,460 Points:1,411,010 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 6:03:56 AM Ignore Petrock Report Abuse Since when did environmental groups care about economic sense? Are they proposing to eliminate the olympics altogether or what?
katmandue Champion Author Detroit Posts:2,107 Points:965,955 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 6:01:44 AM Ignore katmandue Report Abuse We need to try and convert all our buses and truck haulers to mom carbom=n based fuels.
BoerneWatch Champion Author San Antonio Posts:8,944 Points:1,269,435 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:51:19 AM Ignore BoerneWatch Report Abuse Now the environmental group cares about costs? Let's face it, if it involves getting one human being from point "A" to point "B" and it does not exclude all forms of transportation other than by foot or bicycle then the environmentalists are against it. Now money is suddenly important to them. That is a first!
TeachR06 Champion Author Raleigh Posts:2,987 Points:879,750 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:49:35 AM Ignore TeachR06 Report Abuse Hard call. They may be eating this for a long time to come.
Tru2psu2 Champion Author Winston-Salem Posts:4,362 Points:425,195 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:40:51 AM Ignore Tru2psu2 Report Abuse CN will be in the same shape as us....
subnuke Champion Author Atlanta Posts:1,877 Points:387,965 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:40:19 AM Ignore subnuke Report Abuse An idea that was not fully thought out before implementing - like most of the hysteria over climate change that humans have little impact on.
harleydoctor Champion Author Kansas Posts:1,428 Points:757,585 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:37:46 AM Ignore harleydoctor Report Abuse Why are you so worried what Canada does???????
05HD All-Star Author Cincinnati Posts:530 Points:100,325 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:29:51 AM Ignore 05HD Report Abuse IF ROADKING95 IS RIGHT THIS GETS A BIG DUH.
BigDogOH Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:2,579 Points:640,320 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:28:51 AM Ignore BigDogOH Report Abuse Sounds like better idea than ethanol
letmathe Champion Author Chicago Posts:9,063 Points:2,100,975 Joined:May 2001	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:18:23 AM Ignore letmathe Report Abuse fratt ... makes a good point.
fratt Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:3,895 Points:1,464,205 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:09:36 AM Ignore fratt Report Abuse Very expensive buses, Hopefully the price will come down over time!
Amtrgas Champion Author Oakland Posts:1,534 Points:599,310 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 12:31:10 AM Ignore Amtrgas Report Abuse Once you start spending for the Olympics, sometime there is no stopping. Also not all spending is well thought out.
NavyStore Champion Author Seattle Posts:1,698 Points:982,785 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 12:18:13 AM Ignore NavyStore Report Abuse When we go to the Olympics we are staying at a Campground that is a short bus ride away from the SkyTrain. It will take about 90 minutes to get to BC Place (GM Place, home of the Canucks-but can't have a corporate name for the Games).
RoadKing95 Champion Author San Jose Posts:13,959 Points:2,418,090 Joined:May 2003	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 10:25:32 PM Ignore RoadKing95 Report Abuse Gimme a break. It only makes sense that the environmentalists would be against this. The cost to produce the hydrogen, and the resulting pollution is unnecessary. Keep in mind you don't just go out with you butterfly net and grab up a bunch of free hydrogen. No you have to manufacture it, and that takes energy. If your doing it from some coal burning plant, you're better off shooting yourself in the foot. It takes more energy to get the hydrogen than what you can get out of it. Ethanol is still a ridiculous idea for us to be subsidizing, but even that would be wiser than spending it on hydrogen at this time. Sure it may be the future, but that future is way out. Decades, not a couple of years. Our local transit did testing of hydrogen buses. Her is the result. Diesel bus = $1.61/mile. Hydrogen bus = $51.66/mile. Its unfortunate that the article neglected to state what the cost of fuel would be. On the other hand 2.1 million per bus doesn't sound all that much when just the other day we had an article about Japan leasing hydrogen cars, and they were $1 million each. Plus I heard the GM CEO saying that $1 million was the cost for each EV1. So yes the upfront cost is high, but the fuel cost is 25 times diesel. And to produce the fuel causes more polution thatn you eliminate. Wow, what a good idea. Must be why someone here posted that Bush was a big backer of hydrogen.
fasu007 Veteran Author South Carolina Posts:410 Points:530,230 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 8:11:28 PM Ignore fasu007 Report Abuse And the environmentalists have a problem with this? I thought this was one of their ideas.
jwduke1 Champion Author Iowa Posts:10,290 Points:2,016,580 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 8:02:24 PM Ignore jwduke1 Report Abuse Thats a lot of money for a bus!
Chris46 Champion Author Dayton Posts:8,677 Points:1,066,280 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:58:06 PM Ignore Chris46 Report Abuse Just how many people would have to ride the bus everyday to break even? Or are the town officials sure they are even going to break even?
e3p0 Champion Author Columbus Posts:2,179 Points:583,090 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:55:06 PM Ignore e3p0 Report Abuse Wow, them are some expensive buses. Too expensive for my taste.
rodzilla123 All-Star Author San Diego Posts:672 Points:215,780 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:43:18 PM Ignore rodzilla123 Report Abuse Mass transit only works in a few places, New York, Washington, London, Paris, Hong Kong and so on. Small towns in the Midwest, South and West dont need Mass Transit and the rest of us need Cars to get to work 25 or 50 miles away each day.
aarrrt Champion Author San Diego Posts:2,038 Points:523,430 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:42:58 PM Ignore aarrrt Report Abuse I applaud B.C. public transit. I think hydrogen is the way to go. No doubt staging the Olympics is costly and a logistical nightmare but the environmental groups are wrong. I'm beginning to believe that these groups have no agenda, other than their latest cash cow investor. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. If they had their way the population of earth would include zero people.
CarrottopNe All-Star Author Lincoln Posts:761 Points:311,620 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:36:56 PM Ignore CarrottopNe Report Abuse Lets see, 20 buses at $89.5 million. That's $4.27 million per bus. Sounds like something our Government would do.
krisli Champion Author San Francisco Posts:1,850 Points:747,305 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:33:40 PM Ignore krisli Report Abuse It's better than ethanol.
DancingDee Champion Author Gary Posts:2,249 Points:592,015 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:32:13 PM Ignore DancingDee Report Abuse I'm with 2granny!!!!