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B.C. Transit criticized for Olympic hydrogen buses

Canada.com -- As the world's largest fleet of hydrogen-powered buses is set to roll in Whistler, a leading environmental group is questioning the economic sense of the project.

"It is fine to scope out potential technologies of the future, but the reality is B.C.'s public transit services are on life support as far as the financial needs go," said Ian Bruce, climate-change campaigner for the David Suzuki Foundation.

The 20 hydrogen-bus project is funded with $45 million from the federal government and $44.5 million from the province and BC Transit, . The money covers both capital and operating costs until 2014.

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Submitted Nov 23, 2009 By: GM

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neemund Champion Author Seattle Posts:4,142 Points:1,081,795 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2009 6:12:33 PM Ignore neemund Report Abuse An environmental group questioning the economic impact of a supposedly "green" project!?! Very impressive. And why do they have to truck in the hydrogen from Quebec? I'm sure there are plenty of closer sources than that. Anyplace that has water and electricity can make hydrogen in any quantity.
SaltyDogMA Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:2,270 Points:667,565 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:24:52 AM Ignore SaltyDogMA Report Abuse Another example that government needs to stay out of private business. Taking taxpayer money and building busses 4x more expensive than diesel busses makes no sense.
t_flor Champion Author Illinois Posts:2,195 Points:720,890 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:24:31 AM Ignore t_flor Report Abuse It's been a very long time since I've read about an environmental group questioning the economic sense of doing something green! I am impressed!
I10Express Champion Author San Antonio Posts:6,301 Points:1,172,970 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:23:59 AM Ignore I10Express Report Abuse I feel sure the Canadian governments have wasted more than that on other experiments.
Buffalo Joe Champion Author Alberta Posts:7,443 Points:2,073,175 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:23:24 AM Ignore Buffalo Joe Report Abuse Its a "SHOW" by the government, nothing else. They have to impress the thousands of people who are coming to visit and get ripped off by hotels, and souvenir sellers.
ByGuy Champion Author Dallas Posts:5,644 Points:1,267,355 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:21:42 AM Ignore ByGuy Report Abuse More political decisions that do not make economic sense. Does make feel good green sense.
nstrdnvstr Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:33,453 Points:3,521,455 Joined:May 2001	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:21:20 AM Ignore nstrdnvstr Report Abuse FocusGuy, it is really not that surprising, "those" environmental groups usually want to use other peoples money for their causes. When it affects their pocketbook, that is a different story.
THEDodgeman Champion Author Denver Posts:5,626 Points:1,479,580 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:20:34 AM Ignore THEDodgeman Report Abuse GO HYDROGEN... NO POLLUTION EMISSIONS IS GOOD NO MATTER WHAT. MASS PRODUCTION WILL MAKE THE PRICE GO DOWN. HYDROGEN SHOULD BE THE FUTURE. OTHERWISE WE WILL ALWAYS BE OIL DEPENDENT ON OIL FROM THE MID EAST.
silverfox63 Champion Author Michigan Posts:5,799 Points:1,154,695 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:20:08 AM Ignore silverfox63 Report Abuse Does not make much sense to spend all that money if your bus system is on life support as this article says. [Edited by: silverfox63 at 11/24/2009 8:20:23 AM EST]
Digger5 Veteran Author Milwaukee Posts:436 Points:1,226,860 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:15:07 AM Ignore Digger5 Report Abuse Great political logic! Not the brightest stars in the sky!
72_Monte Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:5,423 Points:1,530,230 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:14:40 AM Ignore 72_Monte Report Abuse A $90,000,000 experiment. I think it would've been better spent on natural gas.
lkozark Champion Author Missouri Posts:3,760 Points:975,395 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:14:38 AM Ignore lkozark Report Abuse It will be interesting to view their results after one year of service.
mk9999 Champion Author Rochester Posts:5,548 Points:1,205,870 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:12:20 AM Ignore mk9999 Report Abuse More stupid govt waste of money programs. What they really need to do is lower taxes and spend less.
FocusGuy Champion Author Seattle Posts:4,891 Points:965,765 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:11:48 AM Ignore FocusGuy Report Abuse That's an interesting twist for an environmental group.
PENNYPINCHR Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:4,097 Points:2,001,655 Joined:Jul 2001	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:09:50 AM Ignore PENNYPINCHR Report Abuse More government funded programs. Are these buses really saving that much doe ray me.....................
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:24,623 Points:1,877,535 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 8:04:00 AM Ignore tomok Report Abuse VERY ESPENSIVE bus service! Hydrogen is very expensive to make and to buy. Any business should be operated to make a profit – whether it’s the government or not. What happens after 2014 when the deep pockets of the government is not involved?
adr47 Champion Author Saskatchewan Posts:4,835 Points:1,015,855 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:26:14 AM Ignore adr47 Report Abuse A practical test for alternative fuel
Don1222 Champion Author Michigan Posts:7,802 Points:1,089,855 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:22:58 AM Ignore Don1222 Report Abuse Support alternative fuels, and hydrogen fuel cells.
hybridaholic Champion Author Appleton Posts:5,981 Points:1,092,465 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:22:44 AM Ignore hybridaholic Report Abuse HYDROGEN??? They can use airships filled with hydrogen to move the crowds.
kidwhamo Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,310 Points:923,015 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:20:10 AM Ignore kidwhamo Report Abuse i would like to see how well this works out.
ironbox_sara Champion Author Albany Posts:7,235 Points:1,780,040 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:17:42 AM Ignore ironbox_sara Report Abuse Another public transit service on life support.
madison8359 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:5,730 Points:1,126,665 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:13:07 AM Ignore madison8359 Report Abuse Fuel is a major expense for public transportation. I wonder what oil costs today and what it will cost in the future? Oil will surely go up and up, hydrogen is one of the options for the future.
PurduePete86 Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,077 Points:891,615 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:12:54 AM Ignore PurduePete86 Report Abuse Yep being Green costs money. That is why Green technology is so attractive to start up businesses. Article also prooves that Greenies are just a bunch of Naysayers, there will be no satisfaction for them. [Edited by: PurduePete86 at 11/24/2009 7:15:16 AM EST]
1RedJellyBean Veteran Author Greensboro Posts:452 Points:209,075 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:09:55 AM Ignore 1RedJellyBean Report Abuse Meanwhile, Gas Prices.......The local store has held their prices the same for almost 3 weeks- Have a BLESSED Day!! 2 Cor 2:14
bumpygas Champion Author Nebraska Posts:5,938 Points:1,450,285 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:04:56 AM Ignore bumpygas Report Abuse Petrock said it all.
goldilox88 Champion Author Montreal Posts:4,059 Points:1,000,000 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 7:04:14 AM Ignore goldilox88 Report Abuse Applaud B.C. for using hydrogen buses.
findcheap Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:7,231 Points:1,541,920 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 6:05:03 AM Ignore findcheap Report Abuse someone always complaining
Petrock Champion Author Lexington Posts:6,757 Points:2,089,845 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 6:03:56 AM Ignore Petrock Report Abuse Since when did environmental groups care about economic sense? Are they proposing to eliminate the olympics altogether or what?
katmandue Champion Author Detroit Posts:5,738 Points:1,675,065 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 6:01:44 AM Ignore katmandue Report Abuse We need to try and convert all our buses and truck haulers to mom carbom=n based fuels.
BoerneWatch Champion Author San Antonio Posts:12,920 Points:1,986,030 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:51:19 AM Ignore BoerneWatch Report Abuse Now the environmental group cares about costs? Let's face it, if it involves getting one human being from point "A" to point "B" and it does not exclude all forms of transportation other than by foot or bicycle then the environmentalists are against it. Now money is suddenly important to them. That is a first!
TeachR06 Champion Author Raleigh Posts:3,535 Points:1,018,660 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:49:35 AM Ignore TeachR06 Report Abuse Hard call. They may be eating this for a long time to come.
Tru2psu2 Champion Author Winston-Salem Posts:10,990 Points:1,119,525 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:40:51 AM Ignore Tru2psu2 Report Abuse CN will be in the same shape as us....
subnuke Champion Author Atlanta Posts:5,203 Points:1,047,390 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:40:19 AM Ignore subnuke Report Abuse An idea that was not fully thought out before implementing - like most of the hysteria over climate change that humans have little impact on.
harleydoctor Champion Author Kansas Posts:4,960 Points:1,459,560 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:37:46 AM Ignore harleydoctor Report Abuse Why are you so worried what Canada does???????
05HD All-Star Author Cincinnati Posts:559 Points:105,295 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:29:51 AM Ignore 05HD Report Abuse IF ROADKING95 IS RIGHT THIS GETS A BIG DUH.
BigDogOH Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:6,123 Points:1,339,845 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:28:51 AM Ignore BigDogOH Report Abuse Sounds like better idea than ethanol
letmathe Champion Author Chicago Posts:12,416 Points:2,730,115 Joined:May 2001	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:18:23 AM Ignore letmathe Report Abuse fratt ... makes a good point.
fratt Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:7,489 Points:2,178,305 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 5:09:36 AM Ignore fratt Report Abuse Very expensive buses, Hopefully the price will come down over time!
Amtrgas Champion Author Oakland Posts:2,551 Points:1,228,655 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 12:31:10 AM Ignore Amtrgas Report Abuse Once you start spending for the Olympics, sometime there is no stopping. Also not all spending is well thought out.
NavyStore Champion Author Seattle Posts:3,768 Points:1,657,940 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2009 12:18:13 AM Ignore NavyStore Report Abuse When we go to the Olympics we are staying at a Campground that is a short bus ride away from the SkyTrain. It will take about 90 minutes to get to BC Place (GM Place, home of the Canucks-but can't have a corporate name for the Games).
RoadKing95 Champion Author San Jose Posts:17,810 Points:3,135,265 Joined:May 2003	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 10:25:32 PM Ignore RoadKing95 Report Abuse Gimme a break. It only makes sense that the environmentalists would be against this. The cost to produce the hydrogen, and the resulting pollution is unnecessary. Keep in mind you don't just go out with you butterfly net and grab up a bunch of free hydrogen. No you have to manufacture it, and that takes energy. If your doing it from some coal burning plant, you're better off shooting yourself in the foot. It takes more energy to get the hydrogen than what you can get out of it. Ethanol is still a ridiculous idea for us to be subsidizing, but even that would be wiser than spending it on hydrogen at this time. Sure it may be the future, but that future is way out. Decades, not a couple of years. Our local transit did testing of hydrogen buses. Her is the result. Diesel bus = $1.61/mile. Hydrogen bus = $51.66/mile. Its unfortunate that the article neglected to state what the cost of fuel would be. On the other hand 2.1 million per bus doesn't sound all that much when just the other day we had an article about Japan leasing hydrogen cars, and they were $1 million each. Plus I heard the GM CEO saying that $1 million was the cost for each EV1. So yes the upfront cost is high, but the fuel cost is 25 times diesel. And to produce the fuel causes more polution thatn you eliminate. Wow, what a good idea. Must be why someone here posted that Bush was a big backer of hydrogen.
fasu007 Veteran Author South Carolina Posts:480 Points:1,034,755 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 8:11:28 PM Ignore fasu007 Report Abuse And the environmentalists have a problem with this? I thought this was one of their ideas.
jwduke1 Champion Author Iowa Posts:13,845 Points:2,721,715 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 8:02:24 PM Ignore jwduke1 Report Abuse Thats a lot of money for a bus!
Chris46 Champion Author Dayton Posts:17,123 Points:1,672,420 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:58:06 PM Ignore Chris46 Report Abuse Just how many people would have to ride the bus everyday to break even? Or are the town officials sure they are even going to break even?
e3p0 Champion Author Columbus Posts:2,249 Points:820,905 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:55:06 PM Ignore e3p0 Report Abuse Wow, them are some expensive buses. Too expensive for my taste.
rodzilla123 Champion Author San Diego Posts:2,444 Points:618,130 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:43:18 PM Ignore rodzilla123 Report Abuse Mass transit only works in a few places, New York, Washington, London, Paris, Hong Kong and so on. Small towns in the Midwest, South and West dont need Mass Transit and the rest of us need Cars to get to work 25 or 50 miles away each day.
aarrrt Champion Author San Diego Posts:5,417 Points:1,210,215 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:42:58 PM Ignore aarrrt Report Abuse I applaud B.C. public transit. I think hydrogen is the way to go. No doubt staging the Olympics is costly and a logistical nightmare but the environmental groups are wrong. I'm beginning to believe that these groups have no agenda, other than their latest cash cow investor. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. If they had their way the population of earth would include zero people.
CarrottopNe Champion Author Lincoln Posts:1,025 Points:368,415 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:36:56 PM Ignore CarrottopNe Report Abuse Lets see, 20 buses at $89.5 million. That's $4.27 million per bus. Sounds like something our Government would do.
DancingDee Champion Author Gary Posts:3,640 Points:907,510 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:32:13 PM Ignore DancingDee Report Abuse I'm with 2granny!!!!
OGW Champion Author London Posts:3,337 Points:1,111,980 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2009 7:30:35 PM Ignore OGW Report Abuse The Olympics is an excuse to waste taxpayers money no matter what country hosts it.