gvan
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Chicago
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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2012 12:16:18 PM
"Diesels are a great way to save but GM won't bring them over here."
Apparently you haven't heard of the 2013 Chevy Cruze diesel.
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GBHUGVA
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Virginia Beach
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Message Posted: May 25, 2012 10:28:17 AM
Some real world prices on NEW cars from Cars.com
------------------------------------------------
Toy Prius Plug-in 33K - 48K Small car
Toy Prius V ----- 27K - 39K Midsized car
Toy Prius ------- 23K - 40K Small car
Toy Prius C --- 19.9K - 27K Small car
Chevy Volt ------ 37K - 48K Small car
Chevy Malibu -- 15.9K - 42K Midsized car
Ford Fusion --- 15.9K - 36K Midsized car
Ford Fusion Hybrd 24K - 36K Midsized car
Ford Escape Hybrd 28K - 33K Midsized SUV
Lincoln MKZ Hybrd 30K - 42K Midsized car
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GBHUGVA
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Virginia Beach
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Message Posted: May 18, 2012 9:37:44 AM
2013 Fusion Hybrid is going to give the Prius and Volt some strong competition.
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GBHUGVA
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Virginia Beach
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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2012 8:14:28 AM
Diesels are a great way to save but GM won't bring them over here.
Ford has begun production of its most fuel efficient car ever, 86 mpg.
Unfortunately, the new Ford Fiesta will not be available here in North America.
Also a Diesel, why can't our country get them??????
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Hemond
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Providence
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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2012 2:08:53 PM
::::Personally if you would like to go for world wide sales the Volt was put on hold for sale in Europe due to the battery "crisis."::::
Even if the Volt sells 1000% better in Europe (highly doubtful), its sales will still be dwarfed by the phenomenal blockbuster sales of the Fiat 500.
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Eugene_C
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Columbus
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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2012 10:49:31 AM
@Gvan: The Fit gets horrible gas mileage for such a small car IMO. Honda has lost the edge in Gas mileage. People can buy a big-azz Chevy Equinox that averages 25 mpg now. Why would they get a Fit that gets 30?
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Eugene_C
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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2012 10:46:32 AM
The battery fires occurred an average of two-weeks after the cars were crashed in crash test while they were sitting out on a lot behind the test center.
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Hemond
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Providence
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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2012 11:44:41 AM
Quote: :::It would be impossible to EV a Fiat since it is so small you do not have room for the battery pack, but they will just tax them for polluting.. ::::
Err, not exactly, the electric Fiat 500 is coming to the US in 2012. Car and Driver has already previewed it.
Unfortunately it will be a loser. Fiat corporate expects to lose $10K on each car sold. Are these manufacturers on drugs?
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PopcornPirate
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New Jersey
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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2012 9:35:19 AM
""10 years ago you would have never seen a car like the Fiat 500 for sale in our country. ""
OH Really??? Honda has been making small, cheap, economical cars for decades. VW was the king of small cars ( Beetle ) since the early 1960s.
""If you were paying $8 for gas would you still drive an Escalade, drive a Fiat 500, or take public transit since it is subsidized and that is what the politicians think every good and responsible citizen should do?""
In most areas Public Transportation is not an option. My 1 hour ride to work by car clearly outweighs the Public option. I calculated it. A train to 2 bus transfers would cost more per day then my gas & cost me 2 hours & 15 min to do....Not worth it.
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Roadburner440
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Virginia Beach
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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2012 8:09:31 AM
No, but the difference between Europe and the United States (well at least for the time being) is this. Most Europeans that have cars are lucky they can even afford them... Their politicians through Socialism have made the cost of living so high, and the ownership of cars so unpractical to force people in to mass transportation. For those that don't know if you have larger vehicles they charge you congestion taxes, among other punitive taxes in certain countries based on your cars size/weight.. There are a lot of people who wish they could even afford to own an American car or SUV, but it is out of sight for a lot of them. So no I do not consider the Europeans clowns. As a matter of fact I pity them for putting themselves in the situations they are in by voting for Socialistic policies. I wish they had the same freedoms we do in the U.S... As you can see in the U.S. people are not buying those cars, because those cars are treated the same as a Challenger R/T, or even a Corvette. Unlike in Europe where only the very wealthy have that privilege, but the 99% wish for the U.S. to be "fairer" like Europe. Little do they know what they are bringing on.
Personally if you would like to go for world wide sales the Volt was put on hold for sale in Europe due to the battery "crisis." The Opel Ampera finally started getting delivered I think in December. I do not expect the sales to be better than in the US though due to the above mentioned reasons. Even though technically by European standards it is "green" it is still to heavy to be on the roads. Therefore it will be charged a congestion tax.. If you will notice over there they drive a lot of tiny cars. The Mini Cooper, Fiat 500, smaller Renault's, and so forth. If you were paying $8 for gas would you still drive an Escalade, drive a Fiat 500, or take public transit since it is subsidized and that is what the politicians think every good and responsible citizen should do?
Unfortunately through indoctrination in our public schools this is the very kind of thinking that is propagating throughout our country right now. 10 years ago you would have never seen a car like the Fiat 500 for sale in our country. It just would not have happened. Everything was going bigger, and better. SUV's were the best sellers for many manufacturers, and at the time the fledgling Prius was a car that was driven by a certain orientation of person. I know I was living the high live with my V-8 car, and truck. I really wish on a lot of days I could just go back to the 1990's. Those were really good times.
To get back to the point you have Politicians trying to make their buddies rich by enacting policies/regulations to control peoples behavior. Nancy Pelosi's son (for those that don't know she was the Speaker of the House of Congress when the Democrat's had majority) was heavily involved in Solyndra. They received 500 billion in government funds and went bankrupt. Where is the investigation? The list goes on and on..
So how does this relate to me calling the Fiat 500 a clown car, and feeling sorry the Europeans? Well simply because it is what it is. No matter what we will start seeing more of these cars on the roads. Just like you will see more electric cars on the roads. With the new CAFE standards mandating that US Fleet Averages hit 54.5mpg by 2025 there is no choice BUT to get some kind of plug in whether it is a PHEV like the Volt, or a full EV like the Tesla Model S.. It would be impossible to EV a Fiat since it is so small you do not have room for the battery pack, but they will just tax them for polluting.. Just like with cigarette's it is never about getting people to quit. It is just about making money. The sooner people realize that, and elect real people who have our best interests in mind maybe we can turn the ship around. Either way in the future the poor will be utilizing public transportation, just above that you will have very low end people driving the clown cars, people in the middle most likely will have the electrics, and then the rich will still be driving 12 cylinder vehicles cause frankly they don't care anyway.. That is the way it is in Europe, and that is what is coming here.
So while your comparison to Europe does not quite work yet do not fear. It is coming. Obama will definitely make sure of that. He just needs another 4 years to finish the job. All I am doing is buying myself time. While I will not share your pain at the pump I will be whenever I go to retail stores. As the higher fuel prices to come will be driving up delivery costs for everything, but Obama feels we consume to much anyway. So he will view this as a good thing as we must share the wealth with the rest of the World. In Socialism there is no raising the living standards of the poor. Only bringing the living standards for the rest of us down to their level.
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2012 12:32:11 AM
QUOTE :A quick fact check on you though. The Fiat 500 only sold 19,700 cars last year...:::I kind of thought in the back of my mind 500,000 was a bit high.
Your facts are wrong. As of April 2010, Fiat has sold 500,000 of the current 500 model.
QUOTE :::The Fiat 500 has already reached the production figure of 500,000 with the successful city car being produced at the Tychy plant in Poland.:::
My facts too are wrong as I'm nearly a 2 years out of date. But the 500,000 figure from April 2010 suffices to prove the point. Wonder what the figure is now? 750,000? Perhaps you'd like to hone your googling skills and find out if the 500 has hit 750,000 sales yet?
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2012 12:04:33 AM
::::Didn't say it wasn't successful. It is a clown car though. I am 5' 6", and I would not even want to try and drive it..:;;
Do you consider the 500,000 Europeans who have purchased a Fiat 500 clowns then? Stupid clowns for buying a clown car? Do you consider them clowns for driving a clown car?
At the very least do you consider them shrimps for being able to fit into such a cramped 'clown car'?
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Roadburner440
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Virginia Beach
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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2012 9:14:55 PM
Didn't say it wasn't successful. It is a clown car though. I am 5' 6", and I would not even want to try and drive it.. The Volt is comftorable for me, and even I consider the roof a little low. I saw a used Fiat 500 at the Nissan dealer sunday, and it was barely half as tall as I am. Could have easily bought a Fiat 500. I do not think my wife and kids would have approved being crammed into it, but could have bought it none the less. I don't even think my 10 and 6 year olds could fit in the back seat.
Plenty of cars have gone on to sell high numbers in intro years, and sputter out in the end. Not to mention the ones that have turned out to be duds. Chrysler is definately an example of that which ironically is now owned by Fiat. I think the 500 will fall in to that same trap in the end. Can speculate all day long. People will cling on to gas powered cars till the very end. People in Europe pay the equivalent of $7 or $8 a gallon for gas, and still drive gasoline powered cars. So they won't go away and be replaced by electrics. If anything we will remain a small minority. I'd rather keep it that way, and keep the focus on gasoline taxes. Otherwise they will just come up with new ways to tax my power bill as if being taxed 3 times over is not enough. It seems everyone would rather kill electrics altogether, but if there is no threat then what is there to worry about? Obviously the cars are so bad that people like me are going to do everything we can to turn the vehicles in, so they will all just go away like the EV1 did eventually.
You really want to get rid of electrics then we need to drill for oil. The crazy progressive libs will not allow that however, and no one wants it in their back yard. People are complaining that their water is catching fire in the mid-west due to fracking for natural gas. They also do not want us drilling in Alaska. They do not want to build the pipeline to utilize the tar sands from Canada. Not to mention Conoco Phillips is closing down refineries in the Northeast equal to 50% of the NE production. They will not approve new refineries. Just like they will not approve new power plants. It certaintly puts all of us into quite the predicament.
Either way we will all be slaves to the Chinese making cheap umbrellas for their mixed drinks. I personally am just trying to enjoy my life, and hopefully it happens after I am gone. I am just trying to dispell myths on the Volt. It certaintly has taken quite a bad wrap.
A quick fact check on you though. The Fiat 500 only sold 19,700 cars last year... I kind of thought in the back of my mind 500,000 was a bit high. Especially seeing to the best of my knowledge the 1984 Pontiac Fiero was one of the best selling cars of all time. Churning out 134,000 units in year 1. Then of course the fire issue. Either way though it had an awesome first year right? In fact the Volt and Fiat 500 are lumped in to a 2011 sales failure by Edmunds here: http://www.insideline.com/fiat/500/chevrolet-volt-fiat-500-2011-sales-flops.html . So 500,000 copies is a tad off. Either way the trophy generation has never been one for facts. Just spout off a bunch of numbers to prove a point. The economy is not to a point where people will be buying new cars. Most will be stuck with the older cars they have been driving for years, and the mean age of vehicles on the road in the US is the highest it has ever been. So it will be a long time before any automaker sells half a million of any one model unless it is in China.
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Hemond
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Providence
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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2012 7:47:11 PM
::::I find it funny the Fiat 500 is even mentioned by someone.. That car is at best half the size of my Volt, and my Volt is a small car. The Fiat is like a clown car. :::;
Hmm, then why has the Fiat sold 500,000 copies of the 500 worldwide while the Volt has sold 8000? Are the half million Fiat buyers all on drugs? The current Fiat 500 is going into the record books as one of the all time most successful car launches in history.
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Roadburner440
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Virginia Beach
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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2012 7:20:04 PM
MPGe comes from a gasoline equivelant.. There are 2 methods to calculate it. One of those is pegged to the price of gas, and the other is through the energy content of gasoline. The EPA uses the energy content of gasoline.
So 1 gallon of gasoline contains approx. 33.4kwh of equivelant energy, or approx. 115,000BTU's (British Thermal Units). 1kwh hour of electricity is obviously what it is, and is approx. 3,400BTU.
Taking the above information, and using the EPA's estimates to take the shortcut. The Volt is rated at 35kwh per 100 miles. So doing basic math you come up with approx. 95MPGe....
I like to peg it to the price of gas myself, as it is good for effect. Currently in my area (Norfolk, VA) gas is approximately $3.45 a gallon. It costs me $0.112 per kwh in my area, and I can go 3.59 miles per kwh (this includes 15% loss for charging efficiency as it takes 12.9kwh to recharge the 10.3kwh in the car).. So for $3.45 I can go 110.5 miles, 110MPGe for my MPG equivalent.
Obviously the EPA's way is fairer, but it also under estimates the Volt. Even with 15% charging efficiency loss I am at 27kwh/100 miles, or 123MPGe using the EPA's own standard.
Not sure what the break even point is, and don't really care. What is the break even point for any car? The only break even point is having no car at all. No one is concearned about "break even points" when they buy a Lexus/Mercedes/Cadillac or any of those vehicles. It always comes up with this car though. I bought mine cause I wanted it. If I wanted to save money I could have just as easily kept riding my bicycle to and from work. Ultimately that is cheaper than any car. Why spend any money on a car when you can ride a bicycle? Or why buy a Volt when I can buy a crappy Kia or something.
I find it funny the Fiat 500 is even mentioned by someone.. That car is at best half the size of my Volt, and my Volt is a small car. The Fiat is like a clown car. So is the Honda Fit. The only car that is really good is the Prius, and you are right. I could have bought 4200 gallons gas for the price difference between my Prius, and the Volt. Using that to travel some 215,000 miles. We all buy cars for different reasons. I happen to like the Volt, and I was hooked from the moment I test drove a demo. Looking at it from a strictly dollars and cents perspective it is stupid to really own any car. They are all money pits. If I would have just kept iding my bicycle I could have spent all of the money on something else. Some people like their $80,000 Escalades. No fault on them, and it is none of my business to ridicule them. If you like getting 10-15mpg, and paying through the nose for fuel then be my guest. I did it for many years, and am happy I cut my ties to the pump. I do miss my 6.1L Hemi sometimes, but I certaintly do not miss the fuel bill, or for that matter the regular maintenance.
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PopcornPirate
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New Jersey
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Message Posted: Feb 6, 2012 9:05:37 AM
""The Volt attraction is the combined mpg running on electricity which is 94 mpge.....not the continuous running of the gasoline engine. ""
Maybe i am missing something here????
How other than their claim of 94mpg do you come up with that????
The volt gasoline generator will only generate in the range of 35 to 40 mpg + the added 35 miles on the original charge of the batteries .
9.3 gal tank x 40 mpg = 372 miles + 35 miles = 407 total miles on a tank
AutoGuide.co Review 2012 Volt
Check out the link
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 3:33:22 PM
"""The Volt attraction is the combined mpg running on electricity which is 94 mpge.....not the continuous running of the gasoline engine."""
The cost difference between a Volt and the other 3 vehicles mentioned is roughly $15K to $25K cheaper for the ICEs. That difference in initial purchase price will buy a tremendous amount of fuel.
What is the break even point? 7 years?
Nope, the Volt makes no economic sense, its too costly too run. A gas engine car is more frugal.
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gvan
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Chicago
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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 3:03:00 PM
"The Volt MSRP is $39,995.00 Does that seem a little high for what you get? 40 mpg + an extra 35 miles on the batteries.
The Prius MSRP starts at $24,280.00. - 48 mpg
The Honda FIT starts at $15,195.00 - 33mpg
the Fiat 500 MSRP starts at $15,500.00 - 38 mpg"
From fueleconomy.gov:
Prius 50 mpg combined mpg
Honda FIT 29-31 combined mpg
Fiat 500 30-33 combined mpg
The Volt attraction is the combined mpg running on electricity which is 94 mpge.....not the continuous running of the gasoline engine.
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 12:37:07 PM
Looks like the 1529 sold in December was mostly crony corporations grabbing the year end tax bribe. Only 603 sold in January. There is clearly little demand for this rich yuppie's toy.
[Edited by: Hemond at 2/4/2012 12:40:04 PM EST]
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PopcornPirate
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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2012 8:49:09 AM
Battery technology is not quite perfected yet.
The Volt MSRP is $39,995.00 Does that seem a little high for what you get? 40 mpg + an extra 35 miles on the batteries.
The Prius MSRP starts at $24,280.00. - 48 mpg
The Honda FIT starts at $15,195.00 - 33mpg
the Fiat 500 MSRP starts at $15,500.00 - 38 mpg
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jscdig
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Maine
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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2012 6:48:21 PM
The Volt is a fantastic automobile. It's a technological break through and should be celebrated as such. It's not an "economy" car and wasn't intended to be, it's a near luxury car that gets great gas mileage. I've test driven one several times and am seriously considering purchasing one.
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 11:28:53 PM
I've heard of Fox of course but I've never seen a broadcast. I know nothing about them.
But nonetheless, to get back to the topic, with sales of the Volt seemingly stuck at the 1000 units a month level, it remains to be seen how long Gm can go on making them.
They are nominally a for profit company. I suppose as long as the US Treasury holds out and can keep subsidizing them, they can continue manufacture. but unlike the half million sales of the Fiat 500, it will grow increasingly difficult for Congress not to cut the subsidizing at 1000 a month.
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jimbeaux53
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 1:52:43 AM
Lovely political commentary. Would play well on Fox News.
[Edited by: jimbeaux53 at 1/16/2012 1:54:04 AM EST]
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 1:46:02 AM
Whether it has or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is Fiat has sold 500,000 copies of the 500 sedan. That means 500,000 people reached into their pocket and bought one. However that was achieved.
As far as the Volt, 7500 people have bought one, and it appears a significant number are Obama crony capitalist bedmates like GE , maybe 1/3 got a subsidized price.
Obama would be pleased if he could bribe even 50,000 people to buy a Volt, 10% of the Italian marques sales performance.
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jimbeaux53
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 1:07:46 AM
And Fiat has never been propped up by a corrupt Italian government?
[Edited by: jimbeaux53 at 1/16/2012 1:08:08 AM EST]
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2012 9:58:24 AM
Every marque has its followers. I love Fiat for instance. I get hammered on this board all the time for that, despite the fact that the new Fiat 500 has achieved legendary sales numbers worldwide, (500,000 units sold)
Even the Edsel has its devotees. And plenty of people liked the Vega, the Pinto, even the Pacer.
What matters though is can the manufacturer make money selling their product. With the dismal Volt sales figures, mostly propped up with government subsidies, and crony capitalist inside deals with GE, the answer is no.
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jimbeaux53
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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2012 7:29:29 AM
Impressive numbers if you believe them. They are meaningless to me.
What has meaning to me are the things I can touch and test drive. And the first hand accounts of those that own them and drive them on a daily basis. The Volt owners I know and talked to say it is the best car they have EVER owned. After test driving one I can say it is one of the most impressive cars I have ever driven.
[Edited by: jimbeaux53 at 1/15/2012 7:33:38 AM EST]
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2012 1:33:22 AM
According to GM's own figures for the Volt, they sold 992 of the total December 2011 production to retail customers. The rest went to fleet purchasers like Obama crony capitalists GE, and town governments. These are sold at a subsidized discount with tax payer funds.
If GM has 2600 dealers nationwide that means 2 out of 3 dealers didn't even sell one Volt retail this past month. A clear disaster.
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jimbeaux53
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Message Posted: Jan 13, 2012 8:16:55 AM
The negative noise about the Volt comes either from those protecting a vested interest or those parroting the lines of those with a vested interest. It alsois a certainty it comes from those who have not driven the car. I recently drove one and was completely blown away and realized the negative press on this car is utter BS.
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PopcornPirate
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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2012 10:35:39 AM
V O L T
Very Overpriced with Low Thought.
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